By the People: Participant Text Discussion

Welcome to the Discussion!

Stanford, CA

Are there any approaches in the "Citizenship and Participation" document that you would like to comment on?

Along with your group meetings, this is the place to share your opinions about "Citizenship in 21st Century America"

Voter participation

Arkansas

Has the discussion started? If so, I'm unable to access recent comments. If not, I guess I'm the first:eek:.

The lack of voter participation in this country is embarrassing, Voting should be mandatory for all citizens over the age of eighteen and election day should be a national holiday with everything shut down from 9 am to 9 pm except vital services.
Any differing opinions?

Voting Holiday

Tennessee

I agree that election day needs to be less of a hassle for people who work. A holiday would work, or I would settle for weekend voting.

Voting

Tennessee

I certainly agree that the turnout on election days in the US is a disgrace. Maybe the secret is to have everyone show a 'purple' index finger. Too many people voice their political opinion but never exercise their vote. In my opinion, they should have to display that they were truly part of the process.

It also might help to get our politicans to speak truth instead of slogans during the campaign if they thought the masses would turn out to vote.

Why has this happened?

Arizona

Somehow starting in the middle 60's we found that it was alright to question authority. Unfortunatly it was done in a negative way and somehow we learned that we did not have to do what we were told or follow established rules if we did not like it. The result is a self centered population with little sense of union for the common good. (there lies the difference from the founding fathers) When the people as a whole lose that sense of responsibility they will take the path of least resistance. Hence, we don't vote, we think in ways of circumventing established laws rather than obeying them and if necessary changing them through proper debate. We live in a world where wearing clothes that don't fit is normal. Wearing them in a way that is different than the way they were designed....backward hats....is the way to go because a celebrety does. It is all a lack of class and respect. And, that just about sums up the overall demeanor of America today.

Voting Holiday

North Carolina

A voting holiday or expanding the timeframe for voting would definitely allow for more citizens to cast their vote. However, I don't believe voting should be mandatory. Mandatory voting in my opinion would open Pandora's box. I believe too many people allow outside sources such as Church, mass media and peers to influence their vote instead of forming their own opinions. Critical thinking has taken a backseat to being mainstream. Hey, but if we could make critical thinking mandatory. I would be all for making voting mandatory. TNHXC may be on to something with the "Purple Finger" idea. If voting gave more citizens a sense of pride thenmaybe more citizens would vote. :)

Voter Particpation

Arizona

I am proud to be another American participating with you in this debate. The dumbing-down of the electorate is created by attempts to change behavior rather than to change attitudes. We can change behavior by making American citizenship 'cool' again. We can encourage the notion of the greatness of America and its' people. The days of doom and gloom have oppressed the spirit of citizenship. Citizens respond to leadership. They respond to reason not to threats and fines.

But we are engaged in a great rhetorical war to determine whether this nation's citizens have the guts to lift their heads and to envision and to work toward freedom in our future. The proposals listed here are the offerings of a Nanny State mentality which says that people cannot know what to think or do unless the bureaucracy informs them of what to do and how to do it.

Let us encourage our fellow Americans to become citizens. My question would be, "Isn't it embarrassing that we want government to make us do that which we know we should do when accepting our role as American citizens?"

Election Holiday

anevada

Polls are open for 12 hours, and if you are working a 12 hour shift, your employer MUST give you time to vote. If election day were a holiday, many people would use it as a day to go fishing, or some other holiday function.

Voting et. al.

Buffalo, NY

I really feel that the main problem with voting in the US is the electoral college. Some said before in the discussion that people need to think for themselves. I feel that the electoral college negates this. Compulsory voting will work, and has worked in other countries, but it won't work until the electoral college has been dismantled. It was set up in a very different time and a very different place. THe founding fathers set up a system of government that was appropriate to their time. They established a system of elections that made sense at the time. It does not make sense any more. So many things have changed, but the way in which officials are elected stays the same. I think it needs to catch up with the times! Only then will any method of attracting voters be effective.

Voting

Las Vegas, NV

I feel that mandatory voting would hurt more than help us. Just the thought of having millions of uninformed American citizens at the polls on election day scares me. I think that mandatory Early Voting Centers in every state is one way to combat the low numbers. Also, mandatory voter registration might help. This could be accomplished by making it mandatory to register to vote at say...DMV, before you can get your license; at Social Services before you can get financial aid; at schools before you can enroll your child, etc. Whether or not each person actually votes or not, should be up to them. The fact that they are already registered, should make a difference. :O

My Choice

Georgia

I vote because I want to influence the process of governing our nation, my state and my city. With my vote I select the course of my government's actions by selecting candidates which most closely reflect my beliefs about what government should be and do. The last thing I want is people voting who haven't invested the time and energy to make informed choices. I don't want more voters for the sake of having increased numbers.
Now, let us discuss why people don't vote, why they feel disenfranchised, why they sit on the sideline and watch. How can we engage the members of our nation to participate as we participate? What stops a person from voting.

Election Fraud

MA

The results of the last 2 elections have discouraged people from voting People say the votes dont count so what is the use of voting Fraud allows corruption to exist and encourages abuse of power that has existed for the last 2 elections We are at a moral lowpoint in America and is due to the actions of politicians who serve themselves and their interests rather than the people whom these leaders hold in contempt by their deceitful actions

Participation

Missouri

Being a citizen of America it has been drilled into my head that you must participate. Voting as it is, currently is flawed. People want to know that their vote counts for something. The electoral voting system should be dissolved. It amazes me the excuses people come up with for not voting things like I don't want to be called up for jury duty. My father is a naturalized citizen of the US and his main reasoning for becoming a citizen is so he would have a say. Well anymore it is so you think you have a say since in the past two elections the majority vote counts for nothing. This is something we should be ashamed of. Our country is in shambles because only parts of our community votes. We should not be afraid of making the vote a requirement because of the outside influences of voters or their economic standings. These are exactly why these people should vote. These are the reasons we vote. We can not continue to stomp on the people who we think are undereducated and impoverished. This type of thinking only creates more conflict and division among citizens. If we make a point to include everyone without being judgmental we will reap the benefits and begin to heal this torn country

no easy answers

Texas

A voting weekend, or trade Columbus day for an Election day if everyone is so concerned with "Lost Production". Last time I checked, those holidays are only had by bankers and gov workers - and only 10 holidays. I see that as a savings.

I work 6 days a week and vote. I would like a day off, personally. And fine those lazy folks who won't vote.LOL

The electoral college ? That's a hard one.... if the Federal Gov (all branches) were not as powerful , we would not need the electoral college to help protect state's interests. I don't believe that a few square miles in NYC or Houston should cancel all the votes in Alaska, as an example. As long as the states have less say in their own affairs, we need the electoral college. The Executive branch has a lot of influence in the other 2 branches.

Voting

San Marcos, Ca

Would it not be interesting to find out if we all made a concentrated effort that more people would go to the polls? Say for instance,every T.V. in America at a given time(prime) only showed something unbiased and truthful about the current elections. Newspapers, everyday in the same place did likewise. People ignore politics because they can,you didn't ignore going to school because you couldn't. We NEED a concerted effort to educate the public without beating them up for not voting. :)

Getting more people to the polls

MA

I think we need to overhaul the method of voting and registration and perhaps extend the window for casting a vote. I don't believe a holiday would help, but allowing people to vote over the course of several days and/or at several locations might help in this process of getting people to the voting booth. Our nation commutes to work, sometimes spending hours on the road. Why not allow people to vote where they work instead of where they live? By issuing an individual registration number/card used in the process, they could be identified as registered voters and provide a key to their address and reporting to their polls would not be necessary. These are only ideas I'm putting out there, but I honestly believe that the old-fashioned methods and non-consistency in the voting process has contributed to the low numbers of people going to the polls and has failed to keep up with the realities of daily life in our country.

The cable television industry actually has the capability of monitoring people's viewing habits via their cable boxes and pinpointing advertising based on those habits. Nonetheless, when it comes to voting, we are still counting some votes by hand. It just seems absurd to me that for something as important as the fate of our nation's government, that we have been unable to keep pace with modern technology in providing a pain-free incentive to citizens to cast their votes.

Voting by All Citizens who are Informed about Process

Santa Monica, CA

I suggest a few steps to obtain a better-informed and greater number of voters for every election.

1. As in Australia, make voting mandatory, with a substantial fine for those who don't vote.

2. Make the teaching of Civics and the history of US democracy required in all grades of school from elementary through college.

3. Fund all elections solely by the government

4. Carefully supervised polling counts that can't be corrupted by computers.

4. Require all television and radio stations (public air waves that were given to them) to carry political messages from the candidates.

Voting Concerns

woodsfield OH

A national Election Day holiday might facilitate more voting, but I also recognize the issues of lost productivity/wages/etc. So... I propose changing the date of Election Day to Veteran's Day. Then we have an Election Day holiday, without another holiday. And voting is a wonderful way to honor our veterans.

Tying voter registration to driver's licenses is worth trying. In my state, you are asked about organ donation and advanced directives/living wills when you obtain or renew a license. Why not add voter registration?

Electoral college? Amending the Constitution is a lengthy process, but I would support proportional voting by the states. Then every voice from Ohio would be heard, not just the voice of the simple majority.

Another way to increase voting would be to support measures to give the residents of Washington DC someone to vote FOR. As it is, they are denied a voice in the Senate and House of Representatives.

I oppose compulsory voting. As others have said, voting because you MUST will bring some very ill-informed folks to the polls. On the other hand, what kind of reward might we imagine for those who do vote? Particularly, what carrot might be offered to our youngest voters to help build the voting habit? Small car insurance or tuition rebates? Would captains of industry help support the form of government that enables them to flourish?

Do we want voters who are forced to vote?

Scottsdale

Tying voter registration to driver license issuance is a great idea. I believe it's important to get everyone registered. Although I like the idea of mandatory voting, my concern is that people forced to vote might out of contrariness make poor decisions. Someone might just check all the "no" choices when there are important ballot measures. Another person might go for "patterns" on the ballot (zig zag lines, or straight lines).

I lived in a community where a group of restaurants gave a 10% discount if you came in with your "I voted" sticker or ballot stub. Maybe some type of incentive would work.

Other thoughts?

Voting in America

Colorado

I wish we had a greater electorate participation in this country, but suspect that at least part of voter apathy is deserved. After the 2000 Presidential Election, concern over the Electoral College was rekindled and many became discouraged that the process was flawed. Until we can give a reasonable assurance that votes count, I fear some will not try. To your specific questions:

I am not convinced that in the current state, a national Election Day holiday will be more than another "day off" for many. 7 x 24 operations would be paying overtime to have minimum staff available (healthcare, transportation, and other necessary services are in this category). There is also a question of how many hours one must spend at a polling station (Colorado had some waiting 6+ hours in a recent election because of technical difficulties). Repairs to these flaws, with predictable waiting time could encourage employers to allow more work-day time off for voting.

In my state, one can register to vote when getting a driver's license. This can also be marked on state photo IDs for those who don't drive. Absentee ballots and early polling are available for all elections.

RE: the Electoral college. Constitutional amendments are expensive, time-consuming, and need to be accompanied by civics lessons for many people. While I personally prefer one-person-one-vote, I am not convinced the country could make a considered decision on the subject at this time (sadly).

Voting is a privilege of open society, or so I've been taught. Perhaps we need to educate ourselves on taking advantage of this privilege.

Voting Privilidge

Bloomington, ILLINOIS

I am dismayed by how little people know about the
canidates and the reasons some people will choose
one canidate over another. I doubt the majority
of the population is able to match canidates with
positions on issues. If people are not willing to
spend the time examining the issues and pausing
to consider the enormous problems and issues
this country is facing, I would rather they not vote.

Access and Consistency

Delaware

I don't support mandatory voting or a national holiday because I think it would not help motivate the people who don't vote. People who don't get off work on election day are often the same people who wouldn't be off on a major holiday (store clerks, gas station attendants, etc). Additionally, many people don't get paid holidays. If you make them take a day off, it will be unpaid, which could make them resentful and less willing to turn out at the polls.

One of the things that concerns me about voting is the lack of access and consistency. Aside from a variety of registration deadlines and state regulations regarding eligibility, I wonder how many people really know such mudane things as where to vote and how to register. I live in a small town and you have to register separately for local and federal elections. Each district has sub-districts that have separate polling places. Sometimes I vote at the high school, sometimes at the middle school, sometimes at city hall. I once tried to vote in a primary and got sent to 3 different places before I was finally able to vote. Good thing I went after work and not before (or on my lunch break).

I understand that states and cities manage their own elections, but I think there should be a basic national standard, with states able to adjust their elections as needed as long as they meet a bare minumum standard. It should also be made easier to determine where, when, and how each person should vote, in every district.

Electoral College

Texas

I think that having each vote count will go a long way towards getting more people to exercise their privilege to vote. The Electoral College tnds to make many people believe that their vote will not count. The last two presidential elections show just that. The popular vote was different from the outcome. If this process is changed perhaps more people will register and then make their voces heard.
I think that having people register at the DMV is an excellent idea. One question, non-citizens are allowed to get driver's licenses, aren't they? What about those who are convicted of felonies?
As far as requiring T.V. stations, cable, etc to show politicians and their views, who monitors the content of these programs/segments? How can we be sure that these are unbiased facts? I think that would be too hard to monitor. Those who would watch those programs are those who would be getting this information on their own anyway. Those who don't care and who wouldn't vote anyway, would just change the channel or turn the t.v. off.

Citizenship in 21st Century America

Kirkland, WA

The idea that our country has changed radically from the time it was formed must be discussed. Most important to me are: the validity of the Electoral College, communication and the media, and the ability of all to participate. Democracy is fragile, I think, as demonstrated by the ability to co-opt discourse, aid or discourage voter participation, and cloud political discussion that has been demonstrated most acutely over the period of the last two presidential elections.

Re participation: the ability to gather objective information is more difficult than ever, what with the abrogation of the media's responsibilities to truly inform the public, the decrease in discretionary time to become involved (our ethos is more characterized by economic status, sacrifice to career, and material measure than it is by participation in politics at any level). The impediments to participation are manifold and subtle: workday elections, juggling job travel, day care, long lines at the polls, and so on. It is a hassle, instead of a value for which we, as a society and culture, choose to make every effort to accommodate.

Rather than make it easier for "uninformed" people to vote, perhaps it should be a requirement for media to do much more to provide the information that voters need. There used to be such quaint ideas revolving around the radio spectrum being a public resource, not just a very lucrative source of advertising dollars.

Re compulsory voting, voting holidays, resolved felons voting, and so on: all ideas worthy of discussion.

There is also the unmentioned issue of voting machinery. Voting without a verifiable paper trail is very, very dangerous. I, myself, see no need for electronic voting even at the optical reader level. I can wait a bit. The Union did not crumble when the 2000 election took as long as it did to resolve. The fact that most of the argument over the election was whether to count all votes or not is telling and is not resolved by more complex voting machinery.

Citizenship in America

Elmhurst, IL

Citizens feel they have little ability to control their political destiny and the numbers presented reinforce that. 800,000 constituents in a congressional district, half of whom may vote, half of those who register, and half of those who actually vote, still leaves an individual's vote lost in a sea of 100,000 others. The value of a single vote is substantially lowered.

The riches of our society means many more competing priorities than in the past for those who are successful, and increase the pressure on those below the mean to concentrate on success and leave non-material concerns to others. Those who are disempowered socio-economically feel politically disempowered as well.

The risk of widespread political apathy is that of increasingly detached government leadership. As our leaders perceive that the populace has no interest in their decisions, a situation is created for those leaders to benefit themselves by their decisions rather than the citizenry. This has been a risk of government since there has been government, and there is a strong argument that this is increasingly becoming the case in America today.

Many comments in this discussion address single issues with single solutions. Larger scale change is needed so that enduring change can be affected to address the growing problems of citizen apathy, government detachment, low participation rates, and issue disinterest.

Structurally, society must change the rules so that voting and exercising citizenship are rewarded rather than disincentivized as they are presently. This is consistent with America's capitalist history, which does not frown upon asking "What's in it for me" at virtually every level. It is also consistent with basic human nature, which is much less altruistic than the founding fathers may have hoped. While I oppose mandatory voting, I support mandatory registration, and would support some system of incentives (tax breaks? user fee discounts?, ???) for those who do vote.

At the same time, government and society have a right to impose some burden upon the citizen, rather than simply passively hoping for participation. Nothing infers a sense of duty towards, and expectations from the government like military service; I expect that a universal service requirement including all aspects of government would have a similar effect. Additionally, civil service is a great tutorial for later navigating the government bureaucracy, which is a daunting experience for many americans today and serves to further distance them from their government. Some would argue that civil service puts them at a disadvantage economically; they get behind the power curve relative to their peers in terms of private sector job seniority, lower government pay, and other issues. If a service option is selected, it must be truly universal and relatively short in term. "Draftees" could be allowed to complete a baccalaureate degree prior to government service, or to serve after completion of high school - the government has an enormous need for workers in both categories. Jobs requiring advanced degrees would be the purview of "permanent" employees, not draftees.

Election funding must be changed in order to eliminate the current concentration of power among those corporations and individuals who are able to contribute enormous sums. The feeling of disempowerment alluded to above is strongly reinforced when one realizes that his or her contribution represents such an infinitesimal fraction of total donations. Campaign contributions should be limited to registered voters who are or would be constituents of the candidates. Because the money pool would be so significantly smaller than at present with such a system, and because the number of constituents has grown so large, government funding would have to be introduced, and free or low cost media participation would also have to be either incentivized or mandated. At the same time, allowing a reduction in total funding might help to eliminate some of the marketing from elections and help return policy discussions to the table.

Ultimately, the question becomes whether we can effect any meaningful change in the system. Certainly our current lawmakers would oppose virtually every change I have suggested. Their rhetoric may (or may not) be in favor, but their actions in the past have certainly indicated on emphasis on less transparency and a high comfort level with increasingly concentrated donations and less overall participation. The larger the herd, the more difficult it is to manage. We are at a dangerous crossroads, and the risk is high that we may have already missed our opportunity.

Various election issues

Hot Springs, South Dakota

Issue: Compulsory voting

My comment: America is the land with more trickster and prankster energy than any other. We're asking for a lot of Donald Duck and Sam Orez (that's zero mass spelled backwards) votes if we insist that everyone vote.
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Issue: It is hard to gather voting information

My comment: It is relatively easy if you are experienced at internet surfing and research. It is also easy to get videos if you are a You Tube internet surfer. For others lacking these skills, it can be very tough indeed, especially if your local newspaper (the normal channel of information for election details) is not online. My suggestion is that the League of Women Voters go electronic with their information and that librarians be informed on how to help patrons dig up this information from the web.
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Issue: Voting machinery paper trail?

My comment: Here's where I shine, because I'm a certified public accountant (CPA). My advice to the panel members is to scream like a banshee if the locality where they live uses electronic voting machines that don't give them a paper trail. Want the most honest election possible? Then use electronic voting machines that give out a paper trail and allow pollsters to SOLICIT THE PAPER BALLOT COPIES from voters once they've left the polling place. It would be very difficult to cheat and get away with it. By the way, the best voting machines in the country may be those in Nevada, where they are made to the standards of slot machines and electronic gambling equipment. No paper trail? There's almost no way to tell, and I say that as a professional.
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Issue: Electoral College

My Comment: It's hard to change the constitution. The electoral college assures that both candidates have to run national campaigns it discourages elections or political parites favoring a geographic section. The Presidential election is really 51 races for electors. Under the electoral college, three times since 1789 a very narrow winner of the popular vote did not become president. Until we are all using dead-accurate Nevada-style paper-receipt voting machines and the threat of fraud is correctly regarded as irrelevant, I find it unwise to jettison the electoral college system. Finally, in a close and contested election, the electoral college makes the final decision that of individual human beings who take action a month later, in mid-December. Not perfect, not always the most popular candidate wins, but better than the alternatives based on our diverse nation and its suspicious citizenry.
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Issue: Consistent access to unchanged polling places

My comment: This is an inherent problem. The polling locations should be seldom changed. All states should allow early voting by mail.
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Issue: Fund all elections sole by the government?

My comment: The Supreme Court has determined that electioneering is free speech and has certain protections. Because television is so expensive and so apt to coax us into snap judgments based on visual images, I am tempted to recommend that television not be used for campaign messages other than multi-candidate monitored debates among the contenders. I don't think restrictions on the internet, direct mail, or telephone campaigning are going to stand up to the Bill of Rights. I don't think REQUIRING the radio and television stations to carry messages is going to work to anyone's benefit in the long run, as the internet and visual DVD messages by postal mail are up-and-coming technologies (that will just be accelerated by such restrictions).
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Issue: Carefully supervised polling counts that can't be corrupted by computers.

My comment: Whoa! Again I want to address this as a certified public accountant. Machine voting leaving a paper trail is inherently more accurate than paper ballots. Computer voting SHOULD be clearly the fastest and most reliable way of doing the tally. On the other hand, computerized voting that doesn't give the voter a paper confirmation of his or her selections should be regarded with INTENSE suspicion.

There are two other methods of voting that are superbly accurate. One of them was the old mechanical action voting machine, reset to zero and scored by counting windows at the end of the day. These were expensive to purchase and became very expensive to maintain, but I miss them because only a master criminal or colludingly crooked precinct officials could rig them. Analog is still more accurate than digital, it seems. Another method would be to use the paper ballot system used in INDIA, which is entirely manual but extraordinarily accurate.
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Issue: Voting over several days

My comment: Sounds like a good idea, especially voting early by absentee ballot, which has the virtue of gumming up the spin doctors by fuzzing up the end of the campaign over a prolonged period. That makes the image management for the candidate tougher, which is itself good for the voter and for democracy. Texas and Oregon are already doing this for their voters.

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Other comments from me:

Not only does Nevada have the best voting machines, it also has a selection for all offices called None of these candidates. I would really like to see that on all states for all officeholder positions and for all state referenda, state initiates and state constitution changes.

If none of these candidates wins, that particular office has to be elected again. If none of these alternatives appears for a constitutional change, the present provision is UNPLUGGED and the suggested language is KILLED. Think about that.

Without none of these candidates and none of these alternatives, I personally oppose this nonsense about mandatory voting. Don't demand that I vote unless I can vote no. Without none of these candidates, don't let the sorcerer's apprentice allow proportional voting. And discourage the electoral college from being distributed among congressional districts without being able to vote no.

Let me share a secret: How to achieve NONE OF THESE CANDIDATES when that selection is not available on the ballot. Very few people know how to do this. Go to the polls. Get in the voting booth. Suppose you want to vote for none of these candidates for President. It's easy. Vote for the statewide offices, US congressperson and Senator of your choice. Vote for the local offices and so forth. Now, undervote the office for which you want none of the candidates, in this case, skip the top of the ticket. Nevada allows the overt selection of none of these candidates and California's official election tally calculates the undervotes for each office. For the other states, you have to did and calculate the votes in the other races compared to the Presidential votes to determine what happened. But undervoting is out there and the campaign managers calculate it after the election to see how weak or strong their spinning was. Let's make the selection of none and the publication of undervoting as part of the official tally our very first reform. Shall we? Before we call on everyone to vote? Before we tinker with the electoral college or ban one or two media from the process?
:lol:

Making Voting Day a Holiday

NY

I am not in favor of making election day a holiday.
Most places leave the polls open long enough for people to vote.
There are enough holidays.
Don't make it harder on the employer to pay you to go and vote.
And no I am not an employer. But fair is fair.
Those that want to vote find a way.

Voting / Citizenship

Indianapolis, IN

There is no one simple answer to solve the lack of voting and participation in our government by the people.
More emphasis needs to be placed in the schools, every day, every year.
As for the election day, In Europe it is often on the weekend. I would like to see all day Saturday and Sunday voting for 15 hours each day.
I would like to see it manditory that businesses and institutions be closed one of the two days so their employees can go vote. Those that must be open should pay a election tax for that privilege. This money would be used to fund the election process--not the candidates. It would also be required that businesses must make sure that their employee is off one of the two days (or if the employee wants to work, show proof that he has been to the polls either as an absentee ballot voter or had already voted earlier in the day--this covers shift work). Businesses that would fail to do this would have some fee assessed to that business. For those who can't vote because they are not citizens, the business must must show a waiver that they don't qualify. Implementing such measures are not forcing people to vote, we are making it very possible for them to vote.
I would also suggest that to be eligible for personal tax deductions on your income tax, you must submit a form (like a W2) that the election board sends out after the election that qualifies you to take the deduction if you voted.
I would also like to see high school students, juniors and/or seniors who are not 18 and able to vote, be used in the election day process at the polls. This would intoduce them to the process and its importance. ---Just some thoughts

A Solemn note on the Citizen and Participation session

Connecticut

There is no question that citizens who are eligible to register and vote are disenfranchised. A 50 percent rate of voting is almost obscene.
The next question is why? Let me just list some of the reasons I have considered:
1. Money talks in our elections: As of 1995 (the latest figures available), Federal Reserve research found that the wealth of the top one percent of Americans is greater than that of the bottom 95 percent. Three years earlier, the Fed's Survey of Consumer Finance found that the top one percent had wealth greater than the bottom 90 percent. (http://www.cooperative
individualism.org/wealth_distribution1999.html)
Although these top wealth holders represented only 3.5 percent of the U.S. adult population, they held an estimated 32.7 percent of the total U.S. net worth in 2001. [US Census Bureau].
In 1995, the net worth for households with a White householder was $49,030; for households with an African American householder, it was $7,073; and for those with a Hispanic householder, it was $7,255. Hispanics may be of any race. (US Census Bureau, 2001)

And the Supreme Court has made giving big money and one's own money legal.

2. Winning politicians and the two-party system are happy with the current situation with election laws and their ability to decide whose vote counts. The current system is very manageable by parties. Note the alacrity and actions of Texan Republicans to manipulate voting results under the current system with lots of funds available.
3. The Constitution is difficult to change, especially with the current Supreme Court membership, to open the door to one person—one vote power. (See Wikipedia on amending the Constitution with its various links.) It would take willing, winning politicians at the state as well as federal levels to even begin a long process to change the Electoral College system.

Then how would we change it? Go with a popular vote (decidedly unfavorable to state politicians and citizens, especially of smaller population states)? Go with Madison's idea (See Federalist Papers) defined best by Arthur Schlesinger to take away the 100 points now a part of the Senatorial proportion of Electoral College votes and give these votes totally to the candidates winning the popular vote, thus making sure the popular vote has greater relevance while still apportioning Electoral College votes to states in our Federalist system? That sounds like a great way to go, IF IT WERE MADE POSSIBLE by the winning politicians and wealthy stakeholders who presently have the advantage in our system.
4. The poorer, working nonvoters do not have paid leave to vote and would not have paid leave under any new system to afford the time off to vote, even if it were a National Holiday or a weekend. It would require a law that all companies give workers paid time to vote with a legal receipt. How much time is another complex issue. . . 6 hours at some polling places? Compulsory voting alone would only put an added burden onto the poorer citizen whose job necessitates being on the job to get paid. (P.S. I think Jim from Indianapolis idea for giving time to vote looks pretty, pretty effective.)
5. Voters cannot get accurate, easy to understand facts on issues. We get lots of opinion and opinions of opinions in the media. Lots of statements from candidates/representatives that appear more emotional that factual or biased with questioning from national media sources—the same media sources that are controlled by for-profit mega-companies.

So the question is what difference does it make for the average' citizen to vote under the present, almost unalterable, system that takes a lot of time to do in a conscientious way?

As for felons, that's an easy decision. If you've paid for your crime, you should become a participant in democracy. Now get the U.S. Congress to debate that, then get it out of committee to vote on it.

Election-day registration should be easy if we have a statewide and national computer data system hooked up in every polling place and an identity system that is secure and accurate. That costs money but the Nation can afford it. We can also afford, but do not have, a database working well for crime and guns. Hmmm. If we can get to this point I think it would help. Maybe the last two points, securing citizen's rights for all citizens (including freed felons) and setting up a system to make voter registration more easy is the most attainable. So let's start there. But vigilantly fight for the rest even if it's a tall mountain to climb. :)

I'm in awe of the knowledge and wisdom shared here already

Cedar Rapids Iowa

I would add that some have ignored the disenfranchised voters who, were it necessary to have an ID (license or otherwise) would not qualify to vote. Further, the access to the internet is something that we take for granted, but is still a privilege enjoyed by those with the resources or ready access to libraries (and the safety to get to one). I agree completely that many have lost faith in the system, in part because we have been taught that the system is here to take care of us, and in part because the system has not done anything like that, especially in the last 7 years in regards to elections.

There is far too much corruption in government, on both sides of the aisle. Publicly funded elections would go a long ways toward remedying that. Main stream media has sold out and are playing the game, selling us on the candidates they are interested in without giving us the chance to hear from all. I personally need help sorting out the truth from the fiction; I used to think I could trust the media, but that was clearly not a good idea, given recent court decisions that it's ok to lie in news stories; besides, recanting three days later isn't nearly as splashy as saying it today is.

Felons who are motivated to vote and have completed parole and probation should have no restrictions on voting, but no one in power will ever buy that; again, those who have the money don't want them voting.

We as the electorate are sheep, and follow the spin and forget the issues and, more importantly, the character of those we are considering. I for one would rather have an ethical candidate whose views are opposite mine than a dishonest one who SAYS they agree with me. I have carefully reviewed all the candidates running for election, and know their ETHICS first, and their positions second. I have chosen my candidate and have now set about campaigning for them. Grass roots will eventually win elections again, once we get fed up enough to make it change.

Those who care to will find a way to vote (although I do wish that there was a week day and a weekend day, maybe a Thursday to Saturday, on which to vote!! I've absentee voted in the past, but my vote never gets counted as my precincts have never been close enough to have to count them). Mandatory voting in a democratic society feels wrong.

Electoral college? There are too many other issues for that to matter. As a nurse in informatics, I am fully aware that computer systems CAN be made that will keep our votes safe and secure, but we have to insist that quality control include far more than shaking the machines. Giving a receipt with the votes recorded opens the possibility for coercion to vote a certain way, although there are some proposals out there as to how to verify the vote without revealing the recipient of that vote.

I am truly frightened about the path that we are on, and if we don't soon get excited about what is happening to our country by a small faction with money, we will lose our liberty irrevocably. :eek:

citizenship and voting

California

I am looking forward to the dicussion this afternoon. There are no simple solutions to the voting mess.
We need to bring back patriotism in our childrens classrooms. We need to teach what being a good citizen means and the great responsiblity it holds. We need to take the control of our nation out of the hands of the money grabbers and put it back where it belongs..."we the people". We don't teach our children civics in school, not allowed to be patriotic because it might insult someone (bull) and on and on. People we as citizens of the most free and charitable country in the world need to stand our ground...educate yourself on the politician that wants to represent you...don't take the word of another...the internet is a wonderful info tool.
Well thats it for now...talk to you all later...3:30 pacific

voting in America

I was fortunate to do some simple exit polling for a congressional candidate and the following is what i can add to this debate about voter turnout...
Most people are disheartened, thinking because of the Electorial college that their vote really does not matter. 2) Most did understand the desperation in the direction of our Government, suggesting that it is owned, and rightfully so, by special interest and big money, so their vote is already null because we can never in this government have the same access as the aforementioned. 3) Just too busy.

Active democracy

North of Boston

An important step I haven't seen mentioned would be to first standardize federal elections including the way electoral college slates are elected and how they perform their duties. Ballots, poll hours, recount procedures, etc. should be consistent throughout. Many citizens would be shocked to learn that there have been instances of rogue electoral college delegates who did not vote as they where expected from states that don't require their electors' votes to conform to the winner of the state's popular vote.
Tom

Voting

Arizona

It appears to me that a majority of Americans do not care about elections because they feel "voting does not make a difference, all canidates are corrupt, politicians will do what they want regardless of my opinion and last and most important, the lobbyists have the power". Take your pick of any reason. This county is so divided, politically, those who believe one way can not even attempt to listen to the other side. There used to be political discussions among friends, neighbors, workers. Now that is forbidden. Friendships are broken, families are at odds. And if there is a dicussion it is in "sound bytes" from what someone heard on the radio or tv. Who reads? Who understands what they read? I bet everyone on this discussion has read, listened to and digested a lot of political information, probably for a long time. This is a small minority of Americans. Sorry to say. Teaching civics in school might help, but that would be so "watered down" no tough topic would be touched. I look forward to a good discussion.

Voting in America -- have we forgotten how to be citizens?

Berkeley CA

Even though it's a long, hard road, I think we should start the work needed to abolish the Electoral College. The Founding Fathers were actually afraid of "too much democracy" -- remember that they also had US Senators elected by state legislatures. Furthermore, as much as we may love our states, they just shouldn't count so strongly in the election for President. It's long past time when we had a Presidential direct election. Only then will all our votes count.

As to the other issues being raised:

I wouldn't mind election day being a holiday, but I also don't think it will get all those non-voters to the polls.We should probably switch voting day to a weekend -- perhaps the whole weekend, for 10 hours of so each day. What's so sacred about the first Tuesday after the first Monday anyway?

We are far to harsh in our punishment of criminals, in that the punishment sometimes follows them to their graves -- no one will hire them; they are shunned by large parts of society, etc. I am absolutely in favor of restoring voting rights after a felon has finished his sentence. If we are worried about thugs voting (and I doubt we have to worry), then how about a three strikes approach. After your third felony conviction, you lose your voting rights forever?

Compulsory voting is a real temptation, but I think it's one we should forego, for many of the reasons already given by others here.

Civics -- if it's been abandoned in the schools, it should certainly be reinstated. But if our parents don't vote, our aunts and uncles don't vote, then how will a few classes in school get us to vote? Won't work folks.

I do think that public financing would go a long way towards restoring faith in the political process. I also think it would be easier to get an amendment abolishing the Electoral College than to get public financing. Still, we should try.

Finally, I think we are on a thin edge right now -- poised for a Caesar to come along, make us feel safe and destroy our democracy completely, as we cheer him along. We must find a way, somehow, to restore our republic before it goes the way of Rome.

Preparing voters

Florida

Most universities are now including some kind of community service in their graduation requirements. I think this value must be included in educational programs long before the voting age.We have become such a I generation that young adults are consumed with their own lives and are unable to see the positive effect of participation in community affairs. One has to
become involved in local issues before voting has real meaning
Teachers can help in this effort by having elementary and secondary students examine community problems, form opinions and follow the results of local referendums.

Voting in America

Arizona

Some random thoughts. 1. Ex-convicts, after serving their time (and parole/restitution) should have a waiting period of at least a year, with proof of a civics class participation, to have their voting rights restored. Making it too easy to vote has been the problem for all American citizens. Their going to a class on civics is the least they could do after costing their fellow citizens for their incarceration. 2. How about "loggin in" with your social security number when voting....and then given a $25.00 tax credit on their next federal tax filing? 3. I remember going to weekend clean-ups in my home town, cleaning the woods, river, highway rest stops....etc. in my junior high school days, without any politically minded teachers or supervisors there to indoctrinate. It sure helped in my feelings about what I as an individual could do for my community. To maintain, keep strong my community....has not been lost on my voting rights. We need to re-instill "ownership" of our rights to our younger citizens in order for them to WANT to protect these rights! 4. No to making voting day a holiday....maybe voting on two consecutive days with NO reporting after the first day... 5. No to getting rid of the electoral college....then only a few states have to be bought to secure an election victory. Thanks for letting me vent! :D

All of the Previous

Greensboro, GA

I have read with interest the comments by the previous writers and I have to admit I am totally unsurprised considering the clear bias demonstrated in the original solicitation survey towards "democratic" voting, towards "greater participation" and paying only lip service to the outrageous levels of voter fraud (which by the way is almost all Democrat Party originated and the extent of Democat Party voter fraud is one of the great coverups of a national media which has an astonishingly high Democrat Party Bias itself).

First, as to the suggestions of doing away with or modifying the Electoral College and the "difficulty" of amending the Constitution of the United States of America. Thank God, the framers of the Constitution had it right and first, did not found a "Democracy", but rather a Federal Republic and purposely made it extremely difficult to change the Constitution as this should not be a trivial thing.

The Republic has survived for over 200 years largely because of the constraints on "Democracy". If we wish to tinker with the Constitution, I would suggest it would be more beneficial to the nation to do so by removing the Amendment that made direct election of US Senators the law early in this Century and going back to the state legislators election of the Senate. We took far too much power from the states (power reserved to the states by the Constitution), by allowing direct vote for the US Senate. Prior to that the States had a much more meaningful balancing role in Federal Government Power. This actually gives the individual voter more, not less impact as the closer to a local election it is the more impact the individual voter has. Thus by electing your local state representative (a local election in which you as an individual and your efforts have more ability to impact the results) vs. a statewide election wherein the huge amounts of money required for advertising limits the candidates to the wealthy or to those beholden to the wealthy.

So what appears to be a "Democratic" change actually moves control further from the individual voter. The Electoral College was not designed because of travel restrictions (the dates for elections and the subsequent vote of the Electoral College were, but not the actual process. The assumption of fundamental changes from a "rural" to a "urban - suburban" population misrepresents the conflict between the "City" folks and the "Country" folks in the structuring of the original Constitution and the compromises that the Founders made to accomodate both constituancies.

Is the world different today, Yes, it certainly is, do we need to tear up a working Constitution at whim in order to "increase participation" by the so-called disaffected or "disenfranchised". No, resoundingly NO! Those with an interest in voting, vote today. Those so disinterested they cannot make the effort or those so uninformed they do not realize an election is upcoming so they fail to fulfill their responsibility and register to vote not only can't vote, but quite frankly shouldn't.

The politicians who want instant registration are the politicans who are the current beneficiaries of voter fraud and the ones who would like to make it even more commonplace than it already is. There are no legitimate arguments for same day registration. There is no legitimate argument against requiring a state or federal issued, valid, fraud proof form of ID with pictures, and other biometric identitifiers (Fingerprints, for example) that should be compared against a National Database to prevent multiple registrations and multiple voting in different polling places to allow voting period.

Again those who give what are exclusively specious arguments against such anti-fraud provisions are the beneficiaries of the massive voter fraud we now live with. The state of Georgia has adopted minimal anti-fraud measures, offer free ID cards to the 'so-called" poor and is faced with a massive Democrat Party effort to block even this because the Democrat Party knows without the benefit of massive fraud they would win few if any elections.

A national ID card would resolve this issue and would do far more to assure fair elections than any of the suggestions put forth by the originators of this Poll.

As to Civics lessons, who would write the text books, the same biased American Hating people who write today's American and World History texts that include 37 pages on the Vietnam War, 17 Pages on WWII of which 2 are spent talking about our internment of the Japanese. People who write books that expound at length on the "rights' of students but refuse to address the responsibilities of citizenship or the moral underpinnings of the founding of our Country. I certainly hope not.

We have a system that is broken it is true, but it is broken in ways not at all addressed by this discussion (although it should be). Our problems with voting in this Country are not that too few vote, but rather that too many vote too many times each and too many vote who are ineligeable. Too many vote already who do not even know anything about the candidates or even the basics of our Constitutional Federal Republic. If we want to fix something lets start with that.

A national ID card would also help to resolve the welfare and medicaid fraud & illegal immigration issues as well. We will not survive as a Nation without securing our borders. If we want to amend the Constitution, then lets amend it to say that those who do not pay taxes, do not vote. Why should some people have the right to elect politicians to take wealth & property from others to give to themselves.

As to paying people to vote, what a moronic idea, why should anyone who has to be paid to vote have any say in how the country is run. And, why in the world should employer's be mandated to pay people to take a day off to vote. I work 16-18 hours a day and I can find the time to vote. I believe that allowing voters to vote in the 2-3 week period before election day, so long as they do so with valid proof of ID is in fact a very good idea as this allows the working person to schedule his voting time at his convenience.

I believe also that requiring all the Polls to be open for the same 24 hour period would be a very good thing and particularly if you absolutely barred the Media from any Voting Data at all until the Polls closed. I would also require them to not be within X00 feet of any polling place to prevent them from doing effective exit polling and to help moderate the kind of biased results reporting we get now that does in fact provably reduce voter turn out.

As to felons voting, most states allow the restoration of voting rights after the completion of sentencing (including probation periods) so this is simply another red herring thrown up in an effort to hide the real issue which is massive voter fraud as perfected by the Democrat Party.

Electronic Voting Machines are far less prone to fraud than punch card or hand ballots which have to be counted by potentially biased election officials. As a former resident of Florida, who has watched many elections stolen by massive fraud in Southeastern Florida which has historically held its results until they knew how many votes they had to create or lose in order to swing the statewide results, and having watched as John Kennedy had Illinois and Texas delivered by votes from the dead in Texas and stuffed and lost ballot boxes in Illinois, but an election in which the real winner Richard Nixon placed his concern for the Country ahead of his desire for the Presidency and did not contest a truly stolen election as opposed to Al Gore who after South Florida failed to deliver sufficient fraudulent votes to steal the election created a constitutional crisis by refusing to have the grace to concede that he lost.

And as to the idea that the Media is somehow the place people should get political information is laughable when by their own admission they are 85-90% Democrat leaning and their bias is so clear to the nation that people have stopped watching in droves.

My concerns are that there are fewer and fewer people paying taxes and more and more people that expect something from the government. This is the real problem.

Eliminate voter fraud. Have a single 24 hour nationwide voting period along with a 2-3 week pre-election day voting period both for properly registered properly identified citizens only. Do not allow even provisional voting by persons registered on election day or some reasonable period prior to election day to allow confirmation of both identity, eligibility and lack of multiple registrations to vote (say 2 weeks) although with a proper Tamper and Fraud resistant Biometric National ID card tied to a National Database that could be checked for prior voting in other jurisdictions, you could simply let the ID card be the voter registration.

Or take advantage of Technology and have the best of all worlds, universal registration and fraud control. Use a single national database to record voting activity, have the source code for the voting machines approved by each party's experts and have it maintained in a completely secure computing environment monitored by all interested parties and have a single secure nationwide network that distributes the code to voting machines throughout the Nation, have all votes transmitted to multiple secure data centers by VPN and have results tabulated at each location under the scrutiny and supervision of experts from all interested parties and ONLY tabulate results at the end of the final 24 Hour National voting period. Prevent Media access to polling places to prevent exit polling. We would have to wait for 24 hours to get results but we would 1) be assured that only eligible voters were allowed to vote, 2) we would assure that all votes were properly tabulated and 3) we would reduce the ability of the Media to sway results by announcing inaccurate and biased polling data designed to sway elections.

Citizenship and Participation

Fairfield CT

I would like to see weekend voting over a period of two days. It's the system many European counties use and seems to work well there. Opening polls at 6:30 a.m. and keeping them open till 7:00 p.m. for one day doesn't make much sense to me.

Perhaps a reason for poor election turnouts is the placement of the polling places. Seeing log lines of people waiting for one or two machines in urban areas contrasted with no lines in suburban areas with three and four machines has to be discouraging.

Also, voters id is a problem. Not everyone has a driver's license and not everyone can get to city hall to obtain a voter's id. I'd like to see local officials go to the electorate and take id pictures in community centers, etc. at times other than 9-5 during the week.

I have no objection to allowing all felons to vote after they serve their sentences. I would like to see prison populations eliminated from the census. Counting prisoners who can't vote gives unbalanced representation to areas with prisons.

Civics should be taught from grammar school until high school graduation. Learning about local, state and federal governments from grammar school on will help build an electorate that, at the very least, has some idea of what it's voting for. Somewhere along the line the fact that voting is not only a right and privilege, but also a responsibility, seems to have been lost.

I'm surprised that there are places that do not count absentee ballots. Whether or no they matter to the final count, I firmly believe that they should be counted.

VOTE America

I enjoy this open debate and discussion of our direction in government.
let me ask how you empower a person, whom has just cast their vote (Popular vote) and because we have a caucus (electoral college), cast their votes regardless of the individual citizen, that is contrary to the majority? I personally want that candidate to win MY vote and not the votes that are bought. Money must stay out of politics!
Why not try campaign reform. Let the candidate accept dollar for dollar or even 2 to 1, the amount that they recieve from individual donors be the same as what they can recieve from lobby/business/big money?

The Greatest Issue

I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat, although there were times in my past when I was registered with, fully supported, and voted for each party. I now understand full well the naivety of my youth in having done so.

The most serious problem in the U.S. government today is the erosion of our constitutional freedoms, and that the two major parties in power don't really work selflessly for the people - but for their own, and for special, interests.

Remember when president Eisenhower in his farewell address warned the people of the potentially dangerous and growing power of the military-industrial complex? If you don't, or you are too young, please research this! Many of our fellow citizens will laugh this off as simple paranoia, but we laugh at the peril of our nation. Eisenhower didn't laugh at the situation, he considered it serious enough to go directly to the people with his warning. And since then it has only become worse; far worse.

The military-industrial complex DOES run our government. Where it really matters, both the Republicans and the Democrats serve the same "hidden" master, and that master is not the people.

Secretly, since the 1950s, our military and many in our government have discounted the ability of the people to make their own decisions about the future of our nation; acquiring power for themselves a little at a time behind the scenes where it was largely out of the "public eye".

Almost no elected official in this country is what I would consider a "public servant", yet this is the ONLY thing that an elected official should be. True public servants are the enemy of the military-industrial complex because a true public servant believes that all governmental power should be in the hands of the people - and nowhere else.

We no longer have a government run by persons who hold the interests of the people above all else. I have found only one presidential candidate out of both parties that based on my studies truly has ONLY the interest of the people in their heart, and who has an excellent track-record as a true "public servant". I won't mention their name here, yet if you are an intelligent and honest (especially with yourself) person and you study the candidates very well you will know who this is. Find the candidate who has not changed their stand on the issues one iota since this presidential campaign has started, and who is ignored by the (controlled) media even when clearly winning debates against the front-runners, and you have found who I am speaking of.

There has been no other time during my life when our nation has been in so much peril from within. Who runs our nation? The Republicans and the Democrats do in our abysmal "2 party system". Who runs the Republican and Democratic parties? The military-industrial complex. Don't believe me? Study, investigate, educate yourself. Still don't believe me? Like many, it's more comfortable to keep living a work-a-day life and believe it isn't true and keep your "head in the sand".

Ever hear of the "signal to noise ratio"? It's a concept that comes from engineering which basically says that any "signal" can be hidden sufficiently well if covered over by enough "noise". Our current government and the military-industrial complex understand this exceedingly well, and use it daily against us. Why do the major parties insist on creating countless minor "issues" and debate them endlessly? It's to keep the public distracted from the most serious issue threatening our precious democracy - the slow transfer of true power away from the people of the United States into the hands of the military-industrial complex. It has gone so far in the last 5 decades that it may already be too late...

Please people, wake up! Take action and defend your freedoms against those domestic powers that would prefer to enslave you, and which in many ways already does. If not you, who? If not now, when?

Regarding felons being allowed to vote

California

Once an individual has payed their "debt" to society, that person should have all voting rights restored.. It is wrong to continue to punish someone after they have payed the total debt.

Particiaption of Citizens

Illinois

The real question we should ask is "Should we be concerned with 'voting,' or should we try to get an accurate reflection of our citizenry's thoughts and preferences.

Statisticians have proven that we can sample the population to get a cleaner and better reflection of preferences by a well-drawn sample. By actively seeking out this sample, we can encourage investigation of the candidates positions and attitudes.

Even if the members of this sample "vote" with their "gut feelings, this is still a valid measurement of the voters.

Question

Wichita, KS

I would like to know if there are any other governments in the world, particularly in Europe that have an electoral college-type system for electing their country's leader?

I feel that our electoral college is a bit of a hindrance to voting, as people in some states are showered with attention at election time, while other states hardly know that an election is occurring. Some states are exposed to all manner of hysterical, fear-baiting advertising that is hardly edifying to the psyche and soul, while others do not have to endure the hyper-politicized environment. The system of electing the president (and our Congressional leaders) is so negative and corrosive. And this is being promoted by BOTH Democrats AND Republicans, by BOTH Liberals AND Conservatives. I do not appreciate the attitude of some here that one side is more at fault or to blame than another.

Another Question

Wichita, KS

How do the current percentages of people voting in elections compare to the numbers of previous decades? Is this recent 50% figure really that much lower than the percentage in 1960 for instance?

A comment

Wichita, KS

I am a Democrat living in Kansas, one of the most Republican states in the U.S. I vote for president every four years like everyone else with the realization that my vote is essentially thrown in the trash, because in my state ALL our citizens' votes are (for all practical purposes) counted toward the other candidate. In a very real sense, my vote does not really matter in the end. That is just plain wrong.

Voting and Preparation for Voting

West Lafayette, Indiana

While I agree that we should use some technology to make voting more readily available to all interested citizens, my greater concern is that the various media are far more likely to disseminate information about the campaign horseraces, the picadilos of the various candidates, and slips of the tongue than any substantive materials about the issues at stake in the election. If, the media were willing to really talk about the issues, more people would be interested in voting. What can be done to put issues before the people? Not enough listen to PBS or NPR. We need the commercial media of all types on board.

Participation in Voting and other ruminations

Reynoldsville, Pa

In this great country of ours, as it now stands we are caught between a rock and a hard place. The electoral
college system of verifying the vote for president is out
dated and outmoded for the simple fact that, the college can essentially vote the way they choose and not ever reflect the people's choice for president. In the founding of our country, this system(the electoral college) was necessary because of the time and distance one would have to travel to the capital. There was no instant communication as there is today. Can we as a country not change the Constitution to reflect the vast changes that have happened in the last 200 years? Of course we can! The Constitution can and should be a document that reflects the changes that have happened, it is a living document, alive with the representation that is now happening within our society. If nothing else happens within this next election we need to make changes that will reflect our right to a popular vote that elects our president, just like it does our representatives in the Congress.

voting

Vermont

My parents instilled in me the idea that voting was a privilege, and showed by example that principle. I was one of the first 18 yr olds allowed to vote, and took this privilege seriously. I have voted in every local, state and national election since then. When my kids were small, I took them with me to the polls, and used the occasion as a learning experience. They all vote; the ones out of state in college vote via absentee ballot. I can't stand all the whining about how much work it is, how inconvenient, etc. Anyone remember seeing the Iraqis walking for miles in the hot sun, carrying their old relatives on their backs for the same privilege? And anyone who is so uninformed that he doesn't know when, where, or whom to vote for, shouldn't.

Participation

L. C. asked about participation, and went back to the '50's, but I wonder what was the real participation when the constitution was framed (from eligible voters)?

Felons being able to vote

Ex felons, though they may have "payed their debt to society", have proven that decision making is not their forte'. I don't want that one vote from a covicted felon be the deciding one that can effect the course of this great country.

Voting Participation

I'm a tad reluctant to push for increased participation too much. The low turnout means that the least interested (and presumably least informed) are not participating -- which may be a good thing.

It's my understanding (hopefully incorrect) that courses in civics are no longer required at the high school level. Students leaving high school should understand the basics of government and study the Constitution for at least three weeks.

VOTING

I've read most of the discussion, up until this post. I believe everyone, as a part of being a citizen of this country, should become educated on the issues and vote for the candidate of their choice.

We have a polical party that has attempted to question the validity of the past 2 elections, for their own personal gain and much to the detrement of the country, as a whole.

The electoral college is there for some valid reasons and changing this method should not be taken lightly. If you look at the county maps, of the past 2 elections, you find that a majority of each state voted for George Bush. You do, however, have population centers that voted for the other candidate. Without the electoral college, you will have urban population centers determining elections and I, for one, don't believe these centers should speak for the country.

As far as ID cards are concerned, why shouldn't a person voting have to prove they are a citizen of this country? What is the problem with having a picture ID? It would appear that, at least one party, wants people, who are not eligible to vote, to go out and vote anyway. I have never heard of anyone not being able to get a picture ID. MOst states will give you one for free, if you can't afford it. This is just another straw man argument.

Voter Participation for those who care

Darien, Illinois

I respect people who take the time to vote. It does require some passing knowledge, a little determination, and a great deal of intestinal fortitude to defend one's convictions. Nobody has ever said it is easy to participate, because if you do, you might be asked to justify your decisions by some polling company. Wrapping your brains around complicated subjects requires development of a political soul and a thick skin to defend those values. I think most non-voters would rather watch cartoons and skip the process, thus avoiding any internal/external controversy.

Citizenship

Adirondack Park, NY

Our Federal and State Governments and hence, we do not value citizenship. A citizen is naturally born and raised by citizens or immigrates legally to a country and pledges allegiance to the laws of the adopted country in order to receive the rights and benefits of citizenship.

The Federal Government(Executive,Legislative and Judicial) defies federal law, does not enforce federal law and by its actions is unconstitutional.

Where I live, near the Canadian Border, the U.S. Border Patrol can and does stop your vehicle and search it without cause on an interstate highway - 100 miles south of the border. My NYS driver's license is no longer a valid document to cross the Canadian Border.

Yet just a few miles further on in Ticonderoga, (historically important in Revolutionary War, War of 1812 & French and Indian War) illegal immigrants (Mexican citizens) work at Walmart, get picked up, released and return to work at Walmart. And now, the Governor has mandated that undocumented immigrants (illegal, unlawful) can get a NYS driver's license.

My point is that what does being an American citizen, practicing citizenship get you.

Registering to vote does get you jury duty here and a round trip to the county seat is 70+ miles with no public transportation & gas is $3.03/gal. I pay state & federal income taxes on Medicare and Social Security taxes and 1/3 of my health insurance premiums and still pay to go to emergency room.

I registered to vote on my 21st birthday and have voted in every election since then and will continue to do so. I hope that some day it will count again. I was raised by citizen parents. My mother was elected Judge of Elections by both parties for 22 years in a row in, starting in 1956. And back then schools were closed on Election Day. Of course, back then every nut, bolt & part of every Chevy and Ford was made in the USA. They were AMERICAN corporations, that employed American citizens and legal immigrants.

International Corporations own this country now, we are slaves to the slick media promotion, 24 hour sensationalism and catastrophe used to distract & disenfranchise the responsible citizen and entertain and manipulate the majority.

The hundreds of millions spent on election campaigns enrich Madison Ave. and media corporations which aren't even required to be American majority owned anymore. Rupert Murdoch of FOX, etc. is an Australian citizen.

Citizenship and the right to vote is like a penny. In the beginning of this country, Benjamin Franklin said a penny saved was a penny earned. What does it say of our society when people toss pennies in a dish at the cash register because its not worth the effort to put it in your pocket or purse and carry the weight around. :( :x :oops:

Ex felons voting

I believe that those people who have "paid their debt to society" should have their rights restored. They are required to pay taxes and to not have a right to choose their elected leaders constitutes taxation without representation. .

Electoral college disenfranchises minority voters

Tempe, AZ

I agree wholeheartedly with L. C. I am a Democrat living in Arizona, and I know my presidential vote does not count. In Arizona, the Democratic candidate has only carried the presidential vote twice in the past sixty years! No wonder people are discouraged from voting, on both sides of the aisle.

Duty

California

It is your duty as a citizen of this great nation to vote. If you do not vote don't complain. If and when they can perfect voting on line that will be a great thing...it should totally rid us of voter fraud. Felons are felons for life...they made the choice. I pray that they continue to live a lawfully productive life, but sorry they gave up thier right to vote when they did the crime.
As for the electoral college vote...can't change it until there is no possibility of voter fraud. We do not need another paid holiday...too many now. Week-end day possible..if the people vote it. No election day registration...not until voter fraud eliminated. No fines either...people need to realize we are losing our nation to individuals that hate the United States and have been picking at our constitution for many years. Wake up America....keep you elected officials on thier toes. God Bless America! God Bless our Troops!

electoral college change

North of Boston

People advocating for the abolition of the electoral college are forgetting that the country was founded as a confederation of states and would never have been formed if the small states didn't get the protections of equal representation in the senate and the electoral college. The constitutional amendment process would revisit those arguments and with 2/3 of the states being needed I think small states would again prevail.

Electoral College and Corporate Political Donations

San Francisco, California

It is time to do away with the Electoral College. The purpose that it was designed for no longer exists. Making every vote count matters to each individual. If the popular vote was followed, we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.

Another problem with our election system is the amount of corporate money that is thrown around. It is clear and evident that the corporations get a lot more plan than the average citizen. Corporations, although legally considered a "person" is NOT a person and doesn't have the same needs and priorities as John Q. Public. If the free market was the answer to everything, why can a large number of Americans not obtain health insurance? If you could remove the taint of special interest money -- and the corporations do throw a lot of it around -- I think you would start to see policy that would benefit the citizens. Much government policy is antithetical to the health and welfare of the citizens of this nation. And, yes, the military-industrial complex has turned out to be as bad as Eisenhower warned.

Mechanics and emotion of voting

woodsfield OH

Our on-line discussion tonight identified two areas of voter distress.

One area involved the mechanics of our voting system.
These concerns were issues like cumbersome voter registration procedures, poorly identified polling places, insufficient polling places, restricted voting hours, long commutes from work to polling places, difficulty of "service workers" (hospital/EMS/fire/police) to have time on shift to go vote, restrictive absentee ballot laws... all the relatively simple mechanical voter obstructions.

The cross country participants offered countless creative suggestions to ameliorate these mechanical obstructions, and also shared the various ways their states had already eased some of the difficulties. It was very productive sharing of information.

The other area of voter distress, which I think of as emotional, but could be called philisophical, came through very clearly, and no one had productive or creative ideas for solving it. It's the "my vote doesn't count" feeling. And it's hard to feel that your vote counts when a clear numerical majority in the Senate cannot enact anything. And it's hard to feel that your vote counts when the Executive signs every law, and then creates signing statements saying why he doesn't have to abide by the law.

This is a significant deterrant to voting, and it is difficult to read the paper or listen to the news or keep up with constituent newsletters, and feel otherwise.

I am delighted to participate in these programs, but I think the challenges to the democratic process are greater than just expanding the number of active voters.

Electoral college

Salem MA

It's not necessary for a constitutional amendment to effectively abolish the electoral college. If states having a majority of electoral college votes all agree to award their electoral college votes to the national winner of the popular vote, then we will have effectively achieved direct popular election of the president.

electoral college

North of Boston

Some history, weird facts, and some convincing arguements for keeping the electoral college.

Electoral College

San Antonio, TX

I must agree in keeping with the electoral college. I feel that if we take away the current system then we are destroying state rights which in this case are the smaller states.

I do not think people are not voting because of the current system. I feel that they are lazy and do not want to get involve in the political system for whatever reason. To name a few: less time in front of the T.V., computer, work, family, and other day to day functions.

I would support on having an election day on a Saturday. Weekends are easier for people to take time off from their busy schedule. Please note that you can still vote early and any where in the county and we still have less people voting.

Maybe no new system will work however I feel that the key issue is the responsibilty of the individual citizen.

VOTER PARTICIPATION

PENNSYLVANIA

I THINK TWO EASILY TAKEN STEPS THAT WOULD DRAMATICALLY IMPROVE VOTER PARTICIPATION WOULD BE TO FIRST ELIMINATE GERRYMANDERING SO THAT VOTERS REPRESENTING A COMMUNITY OF INTEREST CAN ORGANIZE AND INTERACT WITH GOVERNMENT AS A GROUP THROUGH THEIR VOTE, AND SECOND, THE TWO PARTY MONOPOLY ON BALLOT ACCESS MUST BE BROKEN.

"Citizenship"

South Florida

This is in response to Kay from New York.
I don't agree that the most critical componants of citizenship reside in a "birth-right" conext. Historically, principles (or one might say philosophy) were the essential elements of citizenship. What makes a "good citizen" today, we should ask. Clearly, some people are born here and are lousy citizens. I would suggest that a "good" American citizen (1) believes in rights not derived from law but rather are unalienable, common to all man, unchanging through time, trans-national and (here I go) come from a higher power (God) (2) believes that with these rights come moral and social obligations (including respect for others, a solid work ethic, respect for family, etc.) (3) believes that these rights and obligations should be expressed, as best they can, in common law and in social norms. With this in mind, some undocumented Mexicans might just be a better citizen than, say, Kay. :eek:

Items on the Table

Maryland

Electoral College and States Rights: What benefit to the separate states accrues from the Electoral College? None that I can see--none that is substantial or significant; however, the Electoral College may frustrate the will of the majority who take their citizenship seriously enough to vote and, furthermore, is subject to manipulation such as we've seen attempted recently in California. Dump the Electoral College, I say.

Felons Voting? No sir! Ex-felons, i.e., those who have "paid their debt to society" so to speak? Of course, if we allow separate classes of voters' rights to be established, we are on the way down that slippery slope to no-Muslims, no Jews, no Catholics, no persons of color, no fluent speakers of the dominant language, etc. The tent should be big enough for all citizens.

Doc

Citizenship and participation

Philadelphia

I believe that there is no reason why we cannot abolish the Electoral College and elect the president by popular vote. This issue comes up for discussion at election time, we would need to have a continuing discussion until the congress allows the people to speak at the polling place.

Citizenship and participation

Philadelphia

I am against compulsory voting. But, I would like to suggest compulsory registration, at the age of 21 everyone citizen should have to register to vote. This could be done. We presently rquire every male to register at the age of 18.

Citizenship

Adirondack Park, NY

I did not say that being born into citizenship makes one a good citizen.

I welcome legal immigration and some of my family falls into this category. I believe immigrants who become naturalized citizens and just don't settle for a green card are probably the "Best" citizens having put forth efforts not required of those born to it and actively pledging allegiance to the U. S. constitution and forsaking all other allegiances. (Forsaking is No longer required)

However illegal immigration starts with the breaking of law legally and morally. Its starts with covetousness ( thou shalt not covet).

Physical action involves, minimally, crossing a border without documentation to supporting illegal activities such as Human smuggling (coyotes) and slave trading (captive sweatshops, prostitution, etc.) No Inalienable rights (death, slavery, poverty,etc.) for these people just big profits for really bad criminals (Gluttony, murder, etc.).

Theft (Thou shalt not steal) - healthcare services, education, wages, etc. are stolen from not so good citizens like me. What gets reported is welfare fraud committed by not so good citizens. Businesses, big and small, who employ illegal immigrants also are committing theft to put profit on the bottom line. There is no bottom line to the deprivation that this kind of human rights abuse can and does lead to.

In a lot of cases, Convicted felons/criminals are denied citizen rights and labeled as bad citizens It is now a felony in some states to ask for documentation of immigration status or citizenship prior to providing public funded services. Border guards are locked up while a drug smuggler is relased.

Being a "good" citizen takes effort. It requires one to sometimes act against one's own self interest, to vote instead of taking a long weekend. To shop somewhere more expensive &/or less convenient.

If there is no intrinsic value to citizenship, then how do we motivate the masses to be good citizens. Making more laws that are not enforced for non-citizens will not reverse the erosion of citizen responsibility.



:eek:

Electoral College

PDX

I do not see how the electoral college helps the small states. The number of electoral votes depends on population. If every state had the same number of electoral votes then the argument that it helps small states makes more sense. However, today if we want our vote to count and we are in the minority party in a given state, then our vote is ignored when the ballots are counted because only the electoral college votes elect the president. That is how a candidate can win the presidency by the electoral college vote and lose the popular vote. To me it makes no sense to keep the electoral college.

We have the ability to count the popular vote quickly enough and accurately enough to use popular vote instead of the electoral college. If I were a democrat in Arizona as one person stated, I would feel that at least my vote counted in the election if the electoral college were eliminated.

Voter Participation

Portland OR

I used to get discouraged going to the polls to vote because sometimes the line seemed interminable. It took a really long time and sometimes I could not get to the polls until after they closed. In Oregon we now have vote by mail. It has helped with general elections and special elections. We still do not have high enough participation but it has improved. Also paper ballots can be recounted and provide a paper trail when elections are contested. This is better than the electronic voting machines that have been so controversial. I think vote by mail might help improve voter turnout.

Electoral College and gerrymandering

Adirondack Park, NY

I believe the electoral college is necessary to balance out disparities between states. What needs to be done in the nominating process and electoral process is to eliminate winner take all votes.

If we get back to tying electoral vote to voting districts and prevent gerrymandering by congress based on party and special interest- the popular vote and electoral vote might actually jive with the various regional concerns and states rights.

Most of New York State is rural. I live 2 1/2 hours north of Albany and 6 hours north of New York City. Syracuse and Buffalo are 5 to 7 hours west of here & NYC. The rural vote is pretty much nullified in presidential, senatorial and gubernatorial elections by population concentration and gerrymandering of voting districts by the majority party after each census.

This allows special interests & candidates to divide and obfuscate with minority issues / wedge issues and not address major issues at election time..

time zones

Deering, Alaska

I agree with some things people say about having elections over a period of days with no reporting of results until everyone is counted. There is a four hour time difference between Alaska and New York. So we are hearing election results before our polls even close. In small communities it may be hard to have elections held for 24 hour periods so I think the idea of having 10 hour periods over several days would work. I like the comments stated by the CPA about a papertrail with computer election machines. I haven't a clue about the electoral college. Don't know how it works and don't know how to fix it. I have voted every election since I was 18. My husband and I usually cancel each other out on the statewide and national elections though. We usually vote the same on the local and borough wide elections though. The reason I have voted every election since I was eligible was my Mom was 2 years old when Native Alaskans were given the right to vote and her and my Dad have taught us it is a duty to our people to have our voices heard. It is our responsibility to stand up and make the world better for our Native people.

Proportional representation?

Western North Carolina

I'm a bit surprised that proportional representation (PR) isn't among he array of options under discussion--has it been purposely excluded for some reason? As many have mentioned, the sense of "efficacy"--or, feeling that your vote makes a difference--is a big factor in whether or not people participate in the process, and PR voting systems have a big impact on that. With a popular vote for President and PR for Congressional and State Assembly delegations, the individual's vote would count in a direct and meaningful way. Of course, where PR systems have been adopted in the past, the two major parties have successfully pulled out all the stops to get rid of them, but if we're discussing solutions to some of the issues of concern that have been brought up I think it should definitely be on the table!
While I'm on here, I'd also like to throw my 2¢ in re extended days for voting. I've been voting for a lot of years, and observed family members and neighbors voting for years before that. With polls open from 6am to 9pm, even farmers and single moms with chores "from cain't see to cain't see" have always been able to get to the polls to vote if they wanted to. Households and communities simply organize themselves accordingly for this special, hugely important event. It seems to me the time-extension schemes that have been suggested only create more opportunities for abuse and corruption.
Well, I look forward to our upcoming in-person conversation tomorrow night!

Briefing Document

Baton Rouge Louisiana

Has anyone read the briefing document? The first sentence says: "The United States is a representative democracy, in which government officials are selected by the people they represent."

Who wrote that? You have got to be kidding me! The United States is a republic. To prove the point, read the constitution and try to find the word "democracy".

After signing the Constitution, Benjamin Franklin replied to a question about what type of government the Founders had created. Franklin said "A republic, if you can keep it."

The Founding Fathers were much more educated in history then the present elite, and they were definitely concerned about "the excesses of democracy."

If you don't know the difference between a democracy and a republic, go to the internet and find out. That includes whoever wrote the briefing document.

Voting

Washington State

A reply to the "people can vote if they want to" comments from my experience. Many people work mandatory long hours (10 - 12), have long commutes, and live in areas with snow and bad road conditions in November. I've seen lines of over 100 people in Colorado when the polls closed and more coming. I believe that it is imperative that we find a way to make voting possible for everyone. Where I live in Washington State we can vote by absentee ballot, and this should be an option in all areas; it also provides the paper trail that many have suggested.
As for the "none of the above" option, I think that is too easy a way for people who don't participate in the process to protest. Participation in our Democracy is key to keeping it functioning. What happened to "ask not what your country can do for you...?"
I share some of the concerns expressed about where our government is headed and how it is run and have real fears for the survival of our country.

elections

cental Texas

responsible citizenship starts with an education system that teaches people the importance of participating in the election process and the need to be at least somewhat informed. Most Americans today seem to think that it will all work out without their vote.Yet some of them scream the loudest at the results.If you live in an area that always votes oneway,your vote the other way may encourage people who share your views to step up.

Compulsory Voting

Falls Church VA

I truly believe it would be in the countries best interest to make in mandatory to vote. It's mandatory for men to sign up for selective service so why isn't it mandatory to vote? Voting has been an abused privilege for far too long. As for as Australia's fines for not voting; I don't feel their strong enough. I think the punishment should fit the crime. If you don't wish to be involved with your country or community then your punishment should be 1 week of community service. This will make the lazy ones thing twice about ignoring what is going on and get involved.

Electoral College

Los Angeles

The electoral college actually works very well for us in most cases.
Election irregularities in isolated locations often can be virtually disregarded if they don't affect the outcome in a crucial state.
Small states get the benefit of disproportionate allocation of votes.
Large states get the benefit of the unit rule, which means that the candidate who carries the state gets all of its votes.
Very close elections often are clear when seen in the light of electoral college votes.
We sould keep the current system.

VOTING

GRAND ISLAND, NEBRASKA

I would like to see the electoral college taken out for once to see the difference. I do believe that this may keep some voters from participating and it will effect the outcome...a more believable reflection of what direction WE THE PEOPLE want our country to go. However I do also believe that a great number of people have gotten turned off to politics due to how our elected officials handle their responsiblity in office and how the mainstream media twist the truth to the point you dont know what to believe unless you know how to read through the garbage. I dont see a change in voter turn out until we get accountability and leadership back in to our elected officials. Also we need to make the media responsible for their role in all this confusion. :x

Voting and voting rights

Texas

The constantly reduced numbers of voters in elections follow the decline of our public education system. One option to promote good citizenship might be to institute a service commitment for high school graduates - either civil or military - upon graduation from high school. The time required should be commensurate with a college political science course, which might replace physical "service" following graduation. Our youth are in large measure quite ignorant.

Should felons or ex-felons vote, Doc? That right is forever lost once convicted of a felony. Would you have an ex-felon serve on a jury?

Daniel, please explain how an ILLEGAL Mexican, who has broken our immigration law and is ILLEGALLY in this country, can be a better citizen than someone such as Kay, who obeys the laws of the land? An unfounded statement is not a cogent argument -- and undocumented and illegal are the same thing.

Voting

Chiefland,Florida

I do not belive we can get people to polling Places untill we get them to belive their vote counts. In fl. their has been hanging shads, machines that disalowed thousands of votes,a worker at one of polling places showed how the machines could be made to only count the voters you wanted it to count. I think we should go back to paper balots and elect by popular vote no elec. college!

Electoral College

Michigan

I believe the Electoral College is necessary to ensure that people are able to choose what would be best for them in their area. The people in Manhattan, for instance, have little idea about what would be the best representation for the people in the middle of Wyoming. That being said, the city of Detroit pretty much decides where the Electoral votes are going for the state of Michigan.

As for increasing voter turnout, the people who value the right to vote, and care about voting, are getting out and doing it. The apathetic people who, for whatever reason, are not voting, probably will continue not voting. Short of getting paid or penalized, I'm not sure there is a way to mobilize them. Maybe making it a tax deduction would help? :D

Lastly, employers should be - if they are not already - required to provide employees with time to go and vote, just as they are required to allow their employees to serve their jury duty.

Electoral College

Buffalo, NY

I think a little tweaking of the EC might be in order...I for one would like to see a state's electoral votes distributed in accordance with the percentage of votes received by a given candidate. So if 40% of the voters of a given state voted for Candidate A, then Candidate A would get 40% of that state's electoral votes. I'm not crazy about the idea of all of the electoral votes going to the candidate that wins the popular vote in that state.

Electoral College

NC

I know that I have heard of some states that do have the option of not giving all their electoral votes to the candidate with the majority. Yet, I have not heard of it being used. Anyone know if this has happened?

Voting

White Lake, Mi

I am somewhat alarmed by the notions of exclusivity or restrictions on voting. If you think people are somehow obliged to be "informed" to vote, your arrogance is stunning. Believe me, you might not like the manner my being informed ultimately takes.
I say the more people voting and the easier it is to vote the better for all of us and this system.
Felons: let them vote. NOW. not after paying some debt to society. Why should the commission of a crime negate your citizenship. Who knows, the law they broke may be an unjust one needing change at the ballot box.
Vote 24 hours, multiple days, make it a holiday, however, More importantly COUNT THE VOTES. Don't let the criminals get away with what they did in Florida, Ohio and New Mexico and hell knows where else.
GET MONEY OUT OF THE SYSTEM. I would venture to guess that most people who are cynical, feeling disenfranchised, disaffected or not part of the process feel that way because they sense the system is rigged by corporate money. The notion that a corporation is a person is ridiculous. Publicly fund elections or restrict contributions to individuals and restrict the amount. Money is not speech regardless of what the supreme court says.
Break up the media monopolies. Corporations who contribute to politicians are double rigging the system when they own media producers. It is corporate/political incest of the most egregious kind.
Participate, more than just vote. Find a passion and follow it.
So many people have expressed so much dissatisfaction, it makes me wonder why we aren't more open to change. Lets open up the system to include as many people as possible and get as many ideas into the marketplace as it can hold.

Citizenship in the 21st Century

Pennsylvania

William Marcy "Boss" Tweed once observed, "I don't care who does the voting as long as I do the nominating". This statement suggests the reason that people don't vote: they do not feel that the choices they are offered on election day are real or meaningful. They believe that the 2 major political parties are coalitions of special interest groups that marginalize popular participation, trivialize issues that people actually care about, serve their special interest constituencies at the public expense, and exclude any real opposition groups from the political process. Until the public can organize itself to break the stranglehold of the corrupt 2-party system, it is doubtful that alienated voters change their habits.

Even so, it would do little harm to eliminate the electoral college and provide for the direct election of the president, just as we amended the constitution a century ago to provide for the direct election of senators. The winner-take-all approach makes it really hard to introduce any sort of meaningful change to the system. It provides stability by restricting choice, and isn't choice the reason for having an election. It might be better to provide for some sort of proportional representation to ensure that more that 2 voices are heard.

People will vote if and when they think it will make a real difference. I think there is something fundamentally corrupt about paying people to vote or punishing them for not voting. Offering cash rewards (or punishments) as a way to increase voter participation is an admission of failure by the system.

Non-voters

TX

When someone doesn't vote because of a misguided emotional notion that "their vote doesn't count" or "doesn't make a difference", they are showing they don't possess enough logical thought to vote. By not voting, they choose to make their vote not count. That is a good thing.

Felons not voting is good thing - they have proven that they will not live willingly by the rules of a good society (and ours has pretty lenient rules, all in all).

Every citizen is given the right to vote. Responsible citizens do vote. A sense of personal responsibility is lacking from all of these suggestions: making Election Day a holiday, registering on Election Day, compulsory voting, letting felons vote.

Also, these suggestions would create new constituencies: the criminal constituency, the lazy constituency, the whiner constituency, the uninformed constituency......

Citizenship and participation

Laguna Beach, CA

Voting is a privilege and should not be subject to any legal enforcement. However, it must be made convenient for people to vote. Registration should be simple and convenient.Time should be made available for employed people to vote. However the most important thing is to make people realize that it is important for them to vote. That in addition to national policies many import local matters are decided. Schools, property taxes, parks and recreation facilities etc. Door to door campaigning about local issues as well as national issues would help.

Citizenship and Participation

Indianapolis, IN

To get more people involved in government and society in general, we need to move the idea of citizenship and patriotism from the abstract to concrete. We pledge alliegence to a flag (abstract) but why not to the constitution (concrete). We all have had those essays what it means to be an American and they are all abstract emotional concepts, (i.e., apple pie, mom, flag, duty) but we never define for our kids what being an American is all about.

We would do far better to take 5 minutes every day in school and have a discussion about one element of the constitution, bill of rights, declaration of independence, etc. than what we do now with a "pledge" that means nothing to the kids/adults." When do we instruct our children that the notion of America is all about sharing ideas, exploring options and coming to a compromise for a solution? The parties and politicians all would have us believe that their way is the only way or no way approach to society's problems and challenges.

I find it hard to believe that we send kids through school who have no idea how to deal with living in society once they turn 18. When do we teach them how to fill out a tax form--(the EZ or short form not the complicated long form whereby we imagine our way to qualify for deductions). When do we walk them through how a jury works and give them practice to examine the facts and not let preconceived emotional feelings get in our way to make decisions? When do we inform ourselves how to file some court transaction to address some wrongs? The answer is we don't. Society tells us that we must hire an expert to do all this for us and that we are not intelligent enough to figure it out. --So whatever the issue is, taxes, legal, jury duty, making decisions about our society, --we build into ourselves and our children the notion that we can't comprehend and must deferr it to someone else.

Want to get more people involved in society, we must give them the fundamental tools to be able to function. Those that have these tools participate, those who are intimidated sit back and think they are not able.

To be patriotic is more than having a flag on your porch, a pin in your lapel, and a bumper sticker on your car. It means that you not only listen to other's opinions, concerns and problems, but that you also offer real suggestions and together we come to a solution. After all participatory democracy is involvement with one another. Otherwise it is just another form of autocratic government jocking to get the masses to keep them in office

Voting

Ohio

I have been hearing so many people say that felons should not vote. They are "bad" people and not "worthy" of voting.
Has anyone ever stopped to think about how many things can be deemed a felony? Or the reasons behind them?
I can see questioning if a hard core, unrepentant, drug using, alcoholic, gun toting murderer should be able to vote. But what about the following example:
A 35 year old housewife, mother of two, happily married, starts going on mass spending sprees and spending extreme ammounts on the lottery. She bounces checks to do so. She is convicted of a felony. After extensive testing, and looking at her past medical history, it is found she has Bi-Polar Disorder. She gets the proper help and correct medication, and goes on to live a normal life.
Is she such a horrid person that she should have to give up her right to vote?
There are others with medical/mental health problems that have led them to commit felonies.
Once they have been treated, they have posed no threat to society, and, in fact, want nothing more than to be functioning, contributing members of society.
I think we should let them.

Increase interest in voting

Livermore

I agree with Jim that we should all learn the Pledge of Allegience, but It's not necessary to repeat it every day like a mantra. That may even reduce it's impact/meaning.

The teaching of Civics in all grades is the MOST important, and Jim's idea of taking just 5 minutes daily to discuss some part of our government, is great - not just the Constitution, but all parts of the way our government works. Teachers may even be able to tie it to current events.

When I was in 9th grade - a LONG time ago - we studied the United Nations and had an assembly of the whole school to watch contestants (who had the highest scores in the final test) compete in a quiz show. We didn't even need big prizes - it was just fun.

Simple things like that could be done in the classroom to raise interest in learning about a lot of things.

We may not want to make voting required, but we need to instill the idea that our form of government only lasts as long as we citizens support democracy by practicing its principles.

Voting

Idaho

It seems that the nation's low voting numbers are of interest only sporatically . . .as we approach the Presidential races every four years. Then we start our national breast-beating. Emphasis to obligations of citizenship must be taught in the schools and re-inforced in the home.
I don't believe in penalties for not voting . . . what, we drag people kicking and screaming to the polls? Not sure that results in a reasoned, informed vote . . .

VOTING RESPONSIBILITY

Ramona, CA

Every person has a responsibility to vote.
Using the internet for voting may be an option.
Making polls accessible and voter friendly is another requirement. Polling areas should be conducted so that a citizen can feel his vote is private.

Voters interest

Ramona, CA

A citizen nees to have a candidate to vote for, not against. If a person practices transcendental meditation there is more consciousness involved in choosing a proper candidate that represents the consciousness of the nation.

Candidate Fatique

Tennessee

Among many different rationales given for not going to the poll on election day there's one that, in my opinion, holds some validity - candidate fatique.

Here we are 5 months before the TN primary and already the political pundits (including Pres. Bush) have given the Democrat candidacy to Hillary Clinton. How do any of them know how TN will vote?

Running for the Presidency in the United States has become a money making event for cable television at the cost of electing the right candidate for the important job of President. We have way too many meaningless early debates, which feed into more and more rhetoric for the talk show hosts and pundits, which feed into poll numbers that become skewed and meaningless, and leads to an election day where people either stay home or feel they MUST cast their vote for the 'winner'. Thus we are left with a candidate that cable news has selected for the country and one that has not had to answer any of the hard questions the electorate wanted answered.

Limit the cable news, and I mean truly limited!, coverage of our elections, limit the daily advertising slots for candidates, limit (2 maximum) of primary debates, and force the candidates to do town hall meetings with the 'real' people so they find out how this country views the issues of the day. As it is today the candidates only listen to those that can furnish the $$$s needed to fund a campaign - not to their electorate.

Get back to basics. Force a candidate to answer to and for the people. Maybe, just maybe, people will return to their civic duty of knowing who/what the candidate is and will take pride in casting their vote on election day.

Proportional Representation

Bellingham, WA

I, too, am surprised (as Deborah from the Carolinas was) that there truly proportional representation has not been discussed. Why not increase the House, say, to 1,000 members, and do more Congressional work on the internet? Representatives could spend more time at home and less on airplanes. They would be more in touch with their constituents and perhaps less influenced by money. If Congress met like some state governing bodies (face-to-face 3 or 4 months out of the year), we might see our Congressional leaders as partof our communities and true leaders.

Voting complaints

Ohio

I am shocked at the number of complaints regarding election day.....are none of you aware of the absentee ballot which is widely used in my area and certainly the choice of most people including myself?
I am an election day worker and observe that most people voting are enjoying a social moment seeing their neighbors and friends.
No to compulsory voting - we need informed voters.

Federal Elections

Seattle, WA

The electoral college is usually very popular within the party who has carried the election and disparaged by those who lost this time around.
Dumping the electoral college in favor of a popular vote might give a few people a renewed belief that their vote counts. It's time to dump the electoral college.
As for a lack of education being a driving factor in election turn out, I wish I could find data of election turnout prior to 1960. If, on average, election turn out for the last 100 years shows an average around 60% it might just be that this is the "American Way" and that the debate is pointless. Unfortunately, so many people forget that our history goes back further than Eisenhower that our views are often skewed. Just when was the time that our elections were "better"?
Election day should be changed to Friday and should be a half day holiday. Gives business a bit of recognition that yes, we do understand the cost to business and yes, we do recognize the need for easier access. I wonder how easy it was to vote in Kansas at the turn of the century.
We need to take a much longer view of our history.

VOTING

FLORIDA

Our society has changed greatly since our founding fathers set forth the methods of selecting our Country's leaders. Today we are overwhelmed by media, usually for entertainment, seldom for education, and almost never for enhancing our citizenship rights and privileges by independent analysis of National, International or local political issues.

You can, as the old saying goes, "lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". Enforced registration and required voting will only create a new kind of "task" that people will grumble and obey without actually caring about the effect of their vote,they will only care that they won't get fined.

I believe that you can't solve the problems of Presidential elections by focusing only on National elections, changes have to start at the local level, with empowerment of people to make changes at a local level being the beginning of increased participation and effective Government.

Those changes must start with our education system and our media presenting more local and State issues to the public in a way that would encourage them to participate and vote.

Voter Apathy Linked to Campaign Finance Reform

Gig Harbor, WA

As I see it, voter apathy will only be relieved when we solve the core problem of meaningful Campaign Finance Reform. Most of us know our elected representatives spend all but two months of their terms working to raise money for re-election. This situation illustrates how broken our election system has become. How can our elected officials fairly and equitably represent ALL the people, when they spend all their time begging corporations and interest groups for money?

I believe voter apathy arises from public cynicism that meaningful repairs to our broken system are likely to occur. They know corporations, pacs and interest groups are loathe to give up the influence they can now buy. Thus, even though I am in favor of the proposed list of reforms in today's discussion, I feel they distract from the core issue, which is not even on the table.

I believe we do need to teach government at every level of our schools, we should restore voting rights to persons who have paid their debt to society, we should have day of Voter Registration in all fifty states, we should abolish the Electoral College or award each State's EC votes to reflect the popular vote, and we should have paper-trail voting in every district, nationwide. However, these reforms will not resolve voter apathy until undue financial influence on elections and elected representatives is removed from the process.

Other western countries have solved this problem by mandating a set amount of public campaign money for each candidate, in each political race. I believe most thinking Americans understand, monied interests are going to fight to perpetuate the political influence their money can buy. All those lobbying firms on K Street in DC, are not willing to pack up and go home in the name of equity in government. Taking an Anti-Socialism stance, their First Amendment, Free Speech argument has, up to now, stymied meaningful reform. While it is hard to stir up rousing nationalistic sentiment over Campaign Finance Reform, this unsexy issue appears to be the core electoral problem of our day, yet it's not even on the radar screen. I believe Campaign Finance Reform needs to become a part of every conversation. Perhaps, in this instance, a little bit of socialism would not be a bad thing.

Democracy

Youngstown, Ohio

I must disagree right away with calling the U.S. a democracy. The U.S. Constitution calls it a Republic.

real people

wi(southern canadaa0

we need real people to run for high office who will tackle real problems like healthcare for all and all the education you could desire, enviromental clean up, corporations be damned.

Participation in politics

Surprise, AZ

I feel that many Americans have an attitude problem. They view voting as a right or an obligation; it is neither. Voting is a PRIVILEGE; one that our family takes seriously.

Teaching our country the importance of voting must come from individuals in every home. We have discussed issues as a family and have taken our young son with us to vote for years. Now we often use the mail-in ballot and still include him in the whole process: Getting informed, voting AND following the results. We experience the reality of politics together - when we "win" and "loose." We are still amazed that so many Americans take voting so lightly.

I often wonder if America would have to loose the privilege of voting altogether before voting became important again. :(

The right to vote is a privilage

Oklahoma City

I feel complelled to respond to the individuals discussing the right to vote and convicted criminals. As a parent, I work hard to teach my children that there are consequences to behavior, particularly bad behavior. Adults who choose to break the law and commit felonies - whatever the situation made the choice to reject the system in which I live. Their rejection of the system should result in punishment. While the penal system "punishes" each crime, revoking the right to vote seems appropriate as well. I must admit that I never imagined a convicted felon would ever get the right to vote again. Can we trust their ability to make good choices? While I believe in forgiveness, we n